Curse

Kwan Xi · Dec 03, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I was wondering are people very desperate for Player Monks in their parties?

Just today I tried to join a group to do Final Assault only to find out they were farming for greens outside Grenth's Footprint even after repeating that I only wished to do Final Assault when I refused to go any further and I expressed my annoyance for being lied to, the leader left and blocked me.

What I'm wondering is any other monk players get screwed over just for their services? Are there people so desperate for Human Monks that they really resort to lying and/or misleading players to get one into their group?

Its not like I blindly join groups too because of this problem I let the entire group know why I'm there when I join (more then once) so there is no confusion. I'm just annoyed and pissed that when I join a group, they know why I joined and they intentionally mislead me just so they have a monk for their own goals.

OS T · Dec 03, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

ye,I know how that is..I wanted SF in my hom,I only had FA left,so I teamed up with 5peoples and I telled em that we gonna do FA,only the warrior was intrested in the greens,after we have taken all the bosses on the way to the djinns he left..hate that myself.

Wakka · Dec 03, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

To be honest I would normally have a Hero monk in my team before I would take 90% of PUG monks.

As for being misled, I think you just hit a bad egg, I dont believe everyone is like this. If PUGing I would go out of my way to ensure people who joined the group get what thier after ^^

Pick Me · Dec 03, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

I think I've been lied to three times.

Once as a Necro asking to do a quest from ToA. I was a Necro and a Monk invited me. I joined, then the next thing I new I was in the Underworld. The Monk wanted a BiP necro to farm. I just left. The monk never asked for any money from me, but I didn't appreciate being kidnapped and brought into the Underwold.

Another time, my monk wanted to do a quest, and the group spamed glf monks to do the same questI was doing. So I joined them and off we went. Everything was fine until we ended up in a dungeon. We cleared it (I never had the dungeon, so I wasn't going to complain). The thing was, 5 out of 8 players actually thought we were doing the quest, only 3 of hem had the intention of doing the dungeon only, as they left after we completed it.

The third time, my Monk was trying to do the bonus for one of the Fire Island missions, and I told them I was going to join them, only if we attempt to do the bonus. Surprise, surprise, we didn't even try to do the mission, so I left.

I don't think people are that desparate, but people know it is better to have a human monk than an AI monk.

Wakka · Dec 03, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

I don't think people are that desparate, but people know it is better to have a human monk than an AI monk.

But Dunkoro wouldn lie to me :O

the_jos · Dec 03, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

There are some things that only a human monk can do (or does best).
So people might trick you into doing something you don't want to do, specially if that's possible with the build that's mostly used.

My monk won't join pugs, except when I got the feeling they are decent and they already accepted me on an other profession.

fainty · Dec 03, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

"smite monk lfp"
at some area's you get almost every minit a new invite to join a group.

I do H+H mostly and PUG at times. I don't care what i do as pugging, but then mostly helping someone else from my friends list.
i think i had also once a team what lied about their distination, didn't went with them but entered straigh back into the outpost again.

arcady · Dec 03, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I've been 'screwed over' like that on several of my characters, not just my monk.

Everytime I go through the Shiverpeaks or the desert I find PUGs with ulterior motives. Sometimes elsewhere, but less so. The most common problem I get is people who intentionally skip the bonus on a mission, but I have had people use missions to farm or otherwise. Just last night a PUG of Venta Cometary almost went bad when the monk turned out to be a 55 and refused to go in the direction of the mission. His running around grabbed up massive aggro especially with the NPC monks trying to run back and forth between him and us. Fortunately he finally got too close to the fortress in the center and it took out his toon with artillery fire. We left him and one other player there, without rezzing them, and finished the mission. Still not sure if that other player was also trying to 'farm' the mission or just got confused.

People are desperate for monks, but what you got is bad manners, not just desire for a monk.

On my monks, I get constant group invites. At the right time of day I'll get it on other characters as well - but the monk plays too critical of a role in a group. The class was added to relieve that, the Ritualist, got nerfed down too far to be able to compete. If you need a third monk you can get a ritualist instead, but its not wise to have one as your second monk.

But in most areas it is hard to get even one monk, let alone two... Despite their importance, the playstyle just isn't popular enough.

All of the above said, I PUG constantly with all my toons, and the vast majority of the time it is a good experience. I particularly enjoy PUGing with one of my monks as I can get into play very fast and I don't have to think about the goals as much. I just keep everyone alive and make sure we're going in the right direction. I rarely get rude treatment on any of my PUGs, regardless of what class I play. It is common to have 1 or 2 bad or argumentative players, but I find that by ignoring the argument and focusing on the goal it can often quickly die down.

It is particularly enjoyable to PUG with a monk because you end up being particularly appreciated. Groups are usually desperate to have you there, over a hero or hench monk, and most of them show it.

arcady · Dec 03, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

The third time, my Monk was trying to do the bonus for one of the Fire Island missions, and I told them I was going to join them, only if we attempt to do the bonus. Surprise, surprise, we didn't even try to do the mission, so I left.

In a PUG, when we get to the part where we have to go start the bonus or not, I usually stop and ask if someone else hasn't started going that way. If they don't shift directions for the bonus, I leave.

But I've only ever had to do that maybe a single handful of times, and I do almost every mission as a PUG now.

One of them was recently, my elementalist in the Ice Caves of Sorrow. They ran past the split point for bonus and I stopped, asked, they just kept going, so I zoned back to the outpost and was in a new PUG in a few minutes later. In the mission right after it, the one for infusion, we had a disagreement right before the seer, as you go over the bridge with a 'T' junction - and learned that some of the members had no plan to do the mission or bonus. But as soon as we got infusion I just started running back to the 'T' and 'PUG-gravity' resulted in the group following me. We managed to finish with infusion, bonus, and mission, plus I capped an elite from the bonus boss.

Now that I think of it, on the same elementalist a few days before that in Aurora Glade I had to do the mission twice because the first PUG blew past the bonus without even trying despite claiming they wanted it. That mission is easy to fail when you try both without a plan, and also easy for a single member to force the entire group to blow the bonus by simply laying out all 3 crystals before the others can finish killing the Demagogue. Second time through, I stopped right before opening the gate, holding the crystal, and chatted out a plan. We followed it and got mission + bonus faster than I've ever seen any PUG I've been in do that mission. Wish I'd put all those guys in my friends list, they were good - they killed every last white mantle in the crystal running area in the time it took me to run twice back and forth between the first two crystals, and as far as I know, my elementalist was the only one there with any AoE skills. Had to solo the bonus for that on my monk - she could never find a PUG able to handle the trick to that mission. One of maybe two or three times I've solo'd a mission on that toon, and she's finished Prophesies.

When I join PUGs I always ask if we're doing all of the goals of the mission (bonus, mission, whatever else is there), and only stay if they say yes (or in some missions where it is so hard to do both, if they are doing the same one of them I planned to do). So I feel entitled to jump ship if somebody violates that. But like I said before, it rarely happens on any of my toons.

Kwan Xi · Dec 03, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

As for being misled, I think you just hit a bad egg, I dont believe everyone is like this. If PUGing I would go out of my way to ensure people who joined the group get what thier after ^^

Like I said that wasn't the only case I've had this kind of problem. It mostly revolves around me joining their group for a quest and find out these guys actually wanted to the mission or vice versa. Most commonly I join a PUG with the intention of completing a Masters rank on missions or the Bonus and find out these guys only want to do get the mission completed only usually without attempting bonus.

One time I was in Elona's Reach with the intention of completing bonus the group agreed to do bonus and I was willing to help with the mission. Up to the Third Crystal one of the guys picks it up and instead of using it to wake the third priest they make a run for the Ghostly Hero to try to finish the mission they run into the large mob of Forgotten and died, but what pissed me off was the fact that they tried to trick me into bringing the Crystal to the Ghostly Hero saying that completes the bonus. Instead I dropped the Crystal in a group of minotaurs and forgotten and left

.

I mainly Hero/Henched Nightfall and I'm currently doing the same with Eye of the North. I found a dramatic increase of idiots in PUGs with NF's release even up to the later parts like Realm of Torment

.

Winterclaw · Dec 03, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcady

On my monks, I get constant group invites.

My monk only gets occasional group invites, and that's usually when I'm planning to H/H or solo something. When I want a party as a monk, I can never get an invite.

I'm doing something wrong here, I just don't know what.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

but I didn't appreciate being kidnapped and brought into the Underwold

QF LoL

Keekles · Dec 04, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

To be honest I would normally have a Hero monk in my team before I would take 90% of PUG monks.

I would also do the same. Last time I monked in a PUG, the other monk had more ele skills on his skill bar than monk skills. The only heals he had were, Healing Breeze, Heal Other, Heal Area. (This was vizunah square by the way. Never played with PUGs after that.

EDIT: That was also the last time I PUG'd anything.

Joshie0808 · Dec 04, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Lol. Back to the topic at hand.. I find that lots of ppl are quite desperate for human monks in the party simply because they do not understand monk builds on heroes (using healing breeze etc.. one of my guildies had 0 divine favor on his hero monk) and they realize the henchies suck. (I remember when I only had prophecies and alesia could never keep me alive).

Personally I get a lot of group invites whenever im in a quest/mission area.

Still, i do have a lot of bad experiences with PUGs myself when I monk.. I remember doing one of the factions missions, got into a group with 3 monks.. leader started mission immediately, after a while, I found myself constantly running out of energy and the party health normally fluctuating around 60%. Turns out one monk was a smiter, and the other well.. just had plain crappy skills.

I only play with guildies now or I H/H everything. And if groups trick you.. well, in that case, the BEST skill to bring is: UNYIELDING AURA.

Age · Dec 04, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

There are some things that only a human monk can do (or does best).
So people might trick you into doing something you don't want to do, specially if that's possible with the build that's mostly used.

My monk won't join pugs, except when I got the feeling they are decent and they already accepted me on an other profession.

I couldn't agree with you more as there are limitations what heros or hench Monk can do although around GF it should not be that in Sf that is another problem.to bad you could of been paid to do it.Sure players are desperate for real Monks wouldn't you be no need of flagging.

Draginvry · Dec 04, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshie0808

I find that lots of ppl are quite desperate for human monks in the party simply because they do not understand monk builds on heroes (using healing breeze etc.. one of my guildies had 0 divine favor on his hero monk)

I agree. I always try to bring my hero if I can, even though I don't have all that many monk skills unlocked. But I'd still trust my Tahlkora, who almost never runs out of energy, to some healing breeze spamming crap that some other people run on their heros.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 04, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

It all depends on the leader of the group most often cause the majority of pug groups I have been with were just fine with heros but the leader, almost always a wammo, wants a WoH monk which is what I almost always wind up doing in PUG groups. But one of he prot builds I tried using can only be done with a hero. Waste not Want Not really hard to use as a human player.

Burst Cancel · Dec 05, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

The phenomenon is mostly as follows:

Most PuG monks are terribad, so if you know anything about the game the odds are heavily in favor of taking heroes. Therefore, pretty much the only people standing around spamming "GLF monk" are bad players. As a result, joining any such group is asking for headaches.

Terraban · Dec 05, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

People looking for groups are bad.
Random monks looking for groups are usually bad.
Random non-monks looking for group are bad.
How do you think a random non-monks monk hero is gonna do?

I'd rather try it with a henchman monk than let a random person take their hero monk.

Faure · Dec 05, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Isn't that why they invented the 'ping skillbar'?
If i'm ever not monking myself and someone uses his hero a simple 'can you ping monks skills please?' is enough to know what your dealing with. And if the bar sucks i don't mind helping the dude telling what may be better so he actually learns something instead of being laughed about. Unfortunately i have the feeling i'm a rare breed =).

When i play my monk i never H/H because imo your missing the whole point of being a monk. I don't care about monking ai players, i'm there to help other people.

arcady · Dec 05, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

To be honest I would normally have a Hero monk in my team before I would take 90% of PUG monks.

I feel the opposite on that. I'll take a lower level player monk over a hero or hench monk. As long as they ping actual monk skills on their build, with a hard rez, I prefer them there over the NPCs.

I do get bad ones from time to time, and the negative is always easier to remember than the positive so I think that is why people think it is common, but most of them do a good job.